In this exclusive interview, Deafheaven candidly discuss their journey through the world of major label black metal, addressing the poser label that has lingered around them for years and sharing their insights on the evolution of their sound.

Deafheaven has consistently embraced a provocative stance, bravely challenging the boundaries of a genre often shrouded in mystery and darkness. Their willingness to be open and vulnerable has set them apart from their contemporaries.

Since their inception in 2010, the band has become a focal point of discussion within the music community, especially with the release of their stunning 2013 album Sunbather. This album showcased their unique ability to draw inspiration from both Weakling and My Bloody Valentine, revealing a sound that sparked intense debate—Deafheaven represented either the end of an era or a glimpse into the future of black metal. Now, 15 years later, it seems the latter has proven true for the band.

With previous releases through labels like Sargent House, Deathwish, and Anti-, their latest work, Lonely People With Power, marks their debut with Roadrunner Records. It is indeed a rarity for a black metal band to sign with a major label, yet Deafheaven’s relentless pursuit and hard work positioned them as the likely candidates to break this mold. From the outset, they have tirelessly played gigs, opting for a more engaging approach typically associated with hardcore bands rather than remaining in the shadows of black metal anonymity.

“I believe that embedded within the very essence of our band is a sense of poverty mindset,” explains guitarist Kerry McCoy. “Both George and I were entrenched in bands for years, pouring our hearts into projects that went unnoticed. This hard work has become a core part of our identity—nothing is ever good enough unless it feels flawless, and even then, success is never guaranteed. It feels like we’re fortunate to be here, and it would be disrespectful to take it for granted and not maximize our opportunities.”

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Despite having no interference from their label or any management pushing them to create radio-friendly songs, the band’s natural inclination has resulted in some of the most compact and concise black metal tracks ever produced. The lead single “Magnolia” is a testament to this, delivering one of the band’s most intense offerings to date, while still incorporating that signature Deafheaven sparkle in the form of background melodies. The heaviness returns with a vengeance in just four minutes, showcasing vocalist George Clarke’s charisma and elevating him to the status of a true frontman within this genre. When they opt for longer tracks, such as the penultimate offering “Winona,” they utilize space intelligently—melding heaviness and haunting melodies seamlessly into a cohesive whole.

In many respects, Lonely People With Power feels like a significant milestone for Deafheaven. Each artistic choice—like the bold decision to use the color pink on the cover of Sunbather that shocked the metal community or the almost complete departure from metal in their previous album Infinite Granite—has been a stepping stone leading to this pivotal moment. This album is a testament to the notion that black metal can transcend its inherent darkness and appeal to a wide array of new listeners.

John: I grew up in San Francisco and got to see you guys right at the beginning, playing constantly. I’m curious, looking back, how were those early days for you around 2010?

George: Those days were filled with excitement, a sense of adventure, and perhaps a touch of frivolity in how we approached the band. We were eager to immerse ourselves in the experimental black metal scene flourishing in San Francisco, a scene we admired immensely.

Kerry and I recorded the demo on our own, even before we officially formed a band. Our desire to perform live was strong, yet we didn’t quite know how to navigate that realm. It was largely a process of trial and error, embracing the moment, juggling our less-than-glamorous jobs, and enjoying as much of life as we could. [Laughs] There wasn’t a deliberate plan, just a desire to create and share.

I vividly recall that our primary aspiration was to secure a stable income at a grocery store while performing at venues like Thee Parkside or Gilman. It’s fun to reflect on those ambitions compared to where we are now.

John: At what point did you realize that this band was becoming serious and that you needed to take it to the next level?

Kerry: That realization dawned on us quite early when we signed with Deathwish. They had an in-house booking agent at that time, which suddenly elevated our profile with a label that people recognized. This transition happened rapidly, around our tenth show. Max Montez booked us on what I believe was the inaugural Nails show in the Bay Area.

When Tre and Jake bought our demo after that show, I was working at Ben & Jerry’s on Haight and Ashbury. George called me during my 10-minute break to say, “They just bought it, and I’m speaking with Tre on the phone, and it seems they want to sign us.” It all unfolded so quickly.

Truthfully, everything that has followed has been a result of us enthusiastically saying yes to opportunities.

George: With each opportunity came a new adventure. It also became a pathway out of our small town in the Central Valley, where aspirations of traveling the country or visiting Europe felt distant. Our families weren’t in positions to support those dreams, but we realized that if we could capitalize on these labels and tours, those dreams could become reality.

This pursuit has always driven us, and it continues to excite us.

John: I’ve listened to the record, and I truly believe it is the band’s strongest work. It feels like a culmination of various elements coming together—the focus on harmonies and softer tones from Great Mass of Color, the heavier sound from New Bermuda, and even what seemed like your embrace of Oasis influences in Ordinary Corrupt Human Love. Now, it all converges into a cohesive record filled with significant rock moments.

Kerry: Absolutely, in Ordinary, you can clearly hear my obsession with Oasis and Radiohead. [Laughs] The essence of the band is that each record feels like a step forward, but we often lack certainty in our direction. Currently, I can say this is my favorite record we’ve created, though I’m sure a couple of years down the line, I’ll look back and think, “We should have changed that” or “Next time, let’s avoid this.”

There’s always that fear of, “I think this is good, and I hope others appreciate it,” but there’s also that sense of pride when we do something unique that others might not accomplish in the same way. Those moments when I think, “This is an incredible song,” and receive similar feedback from others are truly rewarding.

John: That mindset is essential; otherwise, what’s the point of sharing your art if you don’t believe it’s significant?

Kerry: Exactly. My role is not to create noise in a room full of listeners if I think it’s subpar.

John: From an outsider’s perspective, it seems Deafheaven has emerged as the quintessential American black metal band. Your music is intricate and complex yet catchy and immediately engaging. Few black metal bands sign with major labels. Are you aware of this larger platform you now occupy, and does it influence your creative process?

George: I don’t believe it does. Kerry and the team have done a phenomenal job of taking diverse ideas and maintaining their emotional impact without extending songs beyond the 8-10 minute mark, which has been typical for us. This approach began with Infinite Granite, which has honed our skills as songwriters, teaching us how to be economical while still delivering emotional depth.

Kerry: Each record allows us to start fresh. A lot of that thought process informs our writing. You mentioned Oasis and Radiohead—there are parts in “Ordinary” that I recognize as similar to riffs from those bands, yet we filter them through our unique lens.

With this album, part of the process was rediscovering our appreciation for heaviness—the feeling of reconnecting with an old friend and sharing something that resonates deeply. It felt like we had strayed from the energy that originally defined our band, which was about taking our version of black metal and molding it into something distinct.

Also, there’s a practical aspect; I want to perform many of these songs live. We’ve found that every show requires us to include 3-4 songs that run 7-10 minutes, so I thought, why not create some shorter, more economical tracks to fit into our setlist?

John: Is writing a five-minute black metal song more challenging than crafting a ten-minute piece?

Kerry: The ten-minute songs can be challenging due to the high standards we impose on ourselves. Every riff must endure scrutiny from the four of us, who are quite discerning. [Laughs] If it doesn’t meet our expectations, you’ll hear about it—either from Shiv questioning, “What is that, some lame emo chords?” or George suggesting, “It’s good, but let’s refine it a bit more.”

When a ten-minute song successfully navigates that process, it’s an extraordinary experience. However, crafting a five-minute song like “Magnolia” poses its own challenges, as it lacks clean parts and gradual builds—it’s a straightforward second-wave black metal piece enhanced with some Mellotron. You must learn to let go once the painting is complete, which can be difficult.

John: You mentioned revisiting heavier albums. Which ones did you go back to?

Kerry: There are several that I’d prefer to keep under wraps for their own sake. [Laughs] I found myself revisiting the expansive universe of Woe. Some listeners have drawn comparisons between our new songs and those by Spectral Wound, which is not inaccurate, but I believe it’s more about our shared influences. I revisited foundational bands like Darkthrone, Emperor with their atmospheric keys, and a bit of Immortal.

Additionally, there’s a whole realm of bands influenced by that style. There was even some war metal inspiration; for instance, in “Revelator,” some of the riffs were born from the idea of merging Dead Congregation with more Portishead chords.

I’d prefer not to upset the Nuclear War Now! forums, so I’ll refrain from naming too many bands. [Laughs]

John: It’s interesting that people labeled you as posers for so long, but that criticism seems to have faded. Do you feel that shift within the band?

George: Absolutely. I think both supporters and detractors of our band have come to recognize that it’s an overplayed narrative. After all these years, even those who dislike us acknowledge, “Yeah, they have a new record, whatever.”

What helps is that the metal scene has experienced a significant resurgence in recent years, with numerous excellent bands emerging, touring, and delivering exceptional performances. This shift has redirected energy toward more constructive endeavors, and I believe we’ve all benefited from it.

John: I’ve always believed the criticism stemmed from an uncomfortable reflection of the black metal audience. The archetypal cave-dwelling, ultra-kvlt black metal fan exists, but in my experience, many more listeners look like Google engineers. It was ironic that some of the harshest critics resembled Deafheaven members.

George: We’ve always remained true to ourselves, and I don’t feel the need to put on a facade. I enjoy what I enjoy.

While my passion for this music runs deep, and I cherish the culture and friendships I’ve built within it, I have diverse interests. I don’t feel compelled to defend my musical tastes; they simply reflect who I am.

Perhaps those who feel insecure are more inclined to argue against our presence. It’s a peculiar situation, being criticized by someone who looks like me for being part of this genre.

Kerry: It’s worth noting that the negativity we faced didn’t come from credible sources or individuals whose opinions I respected.

During our tours with Godflesh, Justin Broadrick showed us nothing but support. A close friend of my ex-girlfriend is involved with Black Twilight Circle bands, and I’m sure we’d share a warm embrace today. While I wouldn’t want to debate war metal with any of these individuals, it’s clear that we all have unique tastes, and that’s perfectly fine.

I believe much of the backlash we received stemmed from individuals grappling with their own insecurities. Often, we project our self-doubt onto others, leading to a cycle of negativity. You’ve hit the nail on the head; it often felt like a struggle to define what’s authentic—if you’re inauthentic, then I must be too, and I can’t allow that to exist.

John: Do you feel you’ve become the definitive American black metal band? I’m unsure if there’s a larger band within this genre.

George: That’s a challenging question, primarily because I don’t perceive us solely as “Deafheaven is a black metal band.” Yet, being recognized in such a way is a great honor.

Regardless of how we label ourselves or how others perceive us, we hail from that scene, and many bands within it are incredibly talented, releasing phenomenal albums. To receive such recognition and praise is both flattering and generous—I’m grateful for the compliment.

John: As we wrap up, what are your thoughts on the future of heavy music and metal?

George: Currently, the future appears promising. There’s a palpable interest in being challenged and exploring innovative ideas.

We observe this trend not only in the music produced by emerging artists but also in the concepts underlying that music, much of which feels fresh and provocative. Bands like Chat Pile, Blood Incantation, and Full of Hell are just a few examples of diverse groups that possess their own identities, all striving to move the genre forward while retaining an underground essence.

It’s inspiring to see these unique voices gain recognition, and I believe it signals a bright future ahead. I’m thrilled to be part of this evolution.

Kerry: Against all odds, there are individuals creating meaningful art and managing to sustain themselves through it. The pessimistic side of me worries that the divide between local bands and arena-filling acts will continue to widen, which seems to be a general trend in music. The lingering effects of the pandemic will impact many, similar to the transition from the CD era to the current landscape, where wealth is increasingly concentrated among fewer entities.

However, the underground scene will persist, filled with passionate individuals producing compelling art simply because they feel compelled to do so, which is a beautiful reality. As long as George and I have a say, we will aim to challenge and uplift important, exciting artists as we embark on tours together.

Even as we witness the decline of the old systems, we can find solace in the sense of community that emerges. That holds intrinsic value. I eagerly anticipate the future and what it may bring.

John: Thank you for the conversation. Kerry, I genuinely believe that your decision to wear vintage Oasis T-shirts on stage in 2016 played a role in sparking the reunion. I appreciate that contribution!

Kerry: I did my part; I’m happy to have contributed. [Laughs]

George: This man deserves his five percent!

Kerry: Where’s my guarantee?

Stay connected with Deafheaven on Instagram, Facebook, and X, and be sure to purchase your copy of ‘Lonely People With Power’ from the band’s official website.